Venus Square Pluto: Third Parties

Venus Square Pluto: Third Parties

Do you feel that you need to cede your intensity and power?

Every astrology student who’s plagued with a natal square between Venus and Pluto has read about how it indicates obsession, compulsive love, and power games. Those words don’t help at all if you want to effectively handle a Venus-Pluto square. Believe me, I know. I have one natally and have always found those descriptions disheartening—there’s no solution or path indicating a way out. So are we doomed?

Squares are manageable, even if the presence of Pluto complicates matters. In order to learn how, let’s discuss another side of this aspect: love triangles.

In my experience, there is always a third party when Venus Pluto is involved. The third party does not have to be a romantic interest, by the way. It could be a best friend (either yours or your lover’s), a parent, even a job or passionate pursuit. Regardless, the Venus-Pluto native’s lover nearly always chooses the other man, the best friend, or the job over the native.

With enough maturity, you realize that you set yourself up to lose in these situations, albeit subconsciously. Remember, the square represents a conflict. It will play out as you butting heads with someone else, but it always stems from an internal clash, an incorrect belief.

Venus represents what you love and Pluto, your personal power. Venus-Pluto natives secretly believe that you can’t have both love and power; or the best friend and the girl, and so on. You have to choose. Because of the presence of Pluto, you feel that in order to get love, you must cede your intensity and power.

As former tango enthusiast, I’ll use an example from the dance floor. Let’s take a man who’s an accomplished tango lead, but who complains that he never gets the good follows to dance with him. Now, the custom in tango is that the man asks a woman to dance by first scoping her out from across the dance floor and making eye-contact. If she’s interested, she’ll nod subtly and only then will he actually approach and ask for a dance. A Venus-Pluto guy would worry that his eye contact is too intense; he wouldn’t hold the gaze long enough for the woman to realize he’s interested. Worried that he’s overwhelming her, he’d actually give her the idea that he doesn’t deem her a good enough dancer! On some level, he’s aware of his own power and immediately plays it down. Unfortunately, this gives lesser leads—his rivals—the upper hand!

So, you give away your power to the rival. This is done in two ways: by not acknowledging your real talents; and by choosing someone who won’t value you from the start. The solution for Venus-Pluto is to stop slumming. You can’t be responsible for everyone’s feelings. Don’t make yourself smaller so that the little guys feel big. Ironically, as soon as you accept your intensity, you lessen its sting. Then you will discover that the right people for you are unfazed by your power. As you become at ease with your potential, you will attract a partner who’s not afraid of his own power and so can handle yours.

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About Marly K

Marly K has been doing Tarot and astrology readings for friends and loved ones for over a decade. She now offers her services for the general public via her website, MarlyK's Moon Street Tarot. She combines dreamwork, artistic expression, and personal symbolism in order to help her clients access their own inner guide.

Comments

  1. How about the sextile?

    A former friend of mine has this aspect. Everytime she has a boyfriend she completely stops calling her girlfriends, focussing only on him.

  2. i have the VsP natally and seem to have it with every partner is synastry.

    lol, it is so manipulative and everyone is fair game. the third parties that you spoke of are fair game to be used and sometimes abused.

    i do underestimate my power and downplay it or slum. but your correct, the right partner will be able to handle the power that i bring and the love.

    the eye contact gazing is spot on. i dont hold it for fear that it is too intense for the other and later on i regret not doing more.

  3. Good Lawd and God bless those dealing with this aspect. SMH I just did more research on it. I will look for this in the charts of close families and partners that I’m considering for a serious or lasting relationship. Yikes!

  4. u know da guy in the pic is lying coz he looks like pinochio. =) i have venus opp pluto between 1st house and 7th.

  5. Lol @ sand, I can see where your coming from with ur pinoccio comment

    My Venus in scorp conj Pluto in scorp.. Does that just make me equally intense??
    I havnt found anyone that can handle my intensity, and I really do feel I down play it
    To be honest I’m afraid of Just being my intense self, it always just sends people packing..
    Then I become obsessed with trying to show them that I’m not at all intense..
    And I wind up looking like a crazy lady lmao.. Happy dayz!!

  6. So is there a way to get around it if you and someone you don’t want to see fully leave your life both have it? I’ve done enough soul searching and working on my communication to be as effective as I can be….with myself, mainly. But, yet I must deal with others lol

  7. i know venus pluto anything should make us damn sexy.

    http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2009/09/12/the-steamy-side-of-venus-pluto-aspects%E2%80%94a-photo-gallery/

    found this while searching for venus-pluto. makes sense IMO.

    “Pluto doesn’t “destroy” a relationship, but attempts to destroy what threatens the relationship’s survival. This is why jealousy is one of the prime indicators of a Plutonian relationship.”

  8. “In lists of people with such aspects, you find many who married well in order to do some dynasty building. In researching the charts of the wives of presidents and politicians, I was fascinated to see how many of them had Venus in combination with Pluto—so many that I dubbed it the First Lady Aspect. Those who have it include Pat Nixon and Betty Ford with the trine and Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, and Maria Shriver—first lady of California—with the square.”

    i want to be president lol not 1st gentleman..

  9. funny story about venus-pluto. well funny to me at least. =) that’s high maintenance? lol i can handle that i hate sports anyway!

    http://skywriter.wordpress.com/2009/09/13/high-maintenance-a-venus-pluto-vignette/

  10. @gemster with the sextile there’s still obsession and intensity but the two planets blend better, there’s not the inherent conflict of the square

  11. @MsTeeq: I don’t know if running away from people with supposedly negative aspects is the right use of astrology. I agree with Elsa of ElsaElsa.com. She says that aspects are about energy, plain and simple. So while energy can be misused, abused, or even squandered, it can also be channeled effectively. Someone with a Venus Pluto square can learn to work with the energy of the aspect in order to channel tremendous healing love. After all, it is about the transformative power (Pluto) of love (Venus). No, it’s not easy with a square or an opposition, but nowadays there’s a whole array of tools and methods for dealing with trauma, and Pluto’s presence in a chart definitely shows that the native experienced tremendous trauma.

    @LuckyCharm: Pluto intensifies everything it contacts in a chart, so the answer would be yes.

    @no-perspiration: I’ve found that the way to deal with any Pluto contact, is to surrender and not to make demands. It sounds very simplistic, I know, because it can be very difficult to do “psychologically”, especially at first. When I say surrender, I mean in that cliched saying (that is nevertheless very appropriate for Venus/Pluto natives): “If you love something, make it free. If it is yours, it will come back to you. If it doesn’t, it never was.” A relationship with Venus Pluto contacts can definitely last, as long as the natives are both very aware of their dynamics, work on themselves, and allow each other the freedom and breathing space to be who they are. I think that’s the huge lesson in Venus Pluto, because a lot of our society’s ideas about love are centered around power games — and it’s not just people with Venus Pluto contacts who are guilty of this, not by any means!!

    @sand: Yes, I suppose Venus/Pluto does make one sexy. ;-) And, yes, it attempts to destroy anything that threatens that relationship, this is true… However, with Pluto, it’s a good idea to detach before acting on anything that seems like a threat. In my experience, reacting from one’s Pluto can lead to overkill and unintended consequences. It’s veddy veddy useful to remember that Pluto is like Plutonium, destructive and radioactive, and one can very well suffer much more from the fall-out. The best use of Pluto, ime, is to detach and escape a situation instead of duking it out. In a relationship, if someone chooses the other person, s/he didn’t really value you much to begin with, did s/he? So, why defend that crappy relationship through jealous outbursts to begin with?

  12. @sand: Regarding the First Lady aspect… The interesting thing it’s that the two most influential women in that list had natal squares: Eleanor Roosevelt and Hillary Clinton. They found their own power, ultimately, and were able to use it with long-lasting consequences. Eleanor Roosevelt most definitely learned how to use it to do a world of a lot of good. This article about Eleanor R in the New York Review of Books can be seen as a perfect primer on Venus Pluto — its pain and, ultimately, how to transcend the pain in order to use it well: http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2011/jun/09/charms-eleanor-roosevelt/ . Eleanor ultimately learned what she was and was not willing to put up with in a relationship, put her foot down, and, in the end, she and FDR ended up giving each other the freedom to be who they were. They both needed each other to get worldly power and, lest anyone frown at the mention of “worldly power”, it was definitely fortunate for the world and history that both were able to achieve it when they did.

    Thank you so very much for mentioning that side of the aspect, Sand. I had read about it before, but completely forgot it until you brought it up.

  13. “if someone chooses the other person, s/he didn’t really value you much to begin with, did s/he? So, why defend that crappy relationship through jealous outbursts to begin with?”

    soo true! =)

    oh glad u liked me mentioning it! i actually was worried you’d think i was deviating from the point of your blog like i so often do here. =) i like the tarot stuff in ur blog btw! i’m reading it now. need to figure out where i kept my deck again.

  14. dis my fav from one of ur posts.

    http://www.redbubble.com/images/clear.gif

  15. No, Sand! You mentioning that was really great. Read the NYRB article I linked to. It’s crazy how many Venus Pluto themes pop up in it…

    Thanks, Sand!! I’m glad you enjoy the blog. I find Tarot and astrology a really powerful combo.

  16. MK, what about having the opposition in a man’s chart? pluto 1st scorpio, venus 7th taurus.

    you just like the artwork or does the hierophant card mean something to you? or both?

    very interesting article indeed.

    “The marriage of the Roosevelts began on St. Patrick’s Day in 1905. Eleanor’s Uncle Ted, who had just been reelected president of the United States, walked the bride to the altar. He and the groom were distant relatives of a degree comprehensible only to hardened genealogists, but historians have since wondered if Franklin’s choosing Eleanor to be his wife might have been influenced by her close kinship to his hero.

    We needn’t go there. Whatever its roots, it turned out to be an extraordinary marriage once it was purged of sex. It ended in 1945 with Franklin’s death at Warm Springs, Georgia. His house guest that day, to Eleanor’s surprise, was Lucy Mercer.”

  17. @Sand: I know that the aspects are supposed to be very significant, but anecdotally, I find that people often share similar experiences of pain, regardless of the aspect. I think at heart, Venus Pluto has a problem finding a balance between one’s needs and the other’s. With that configuration, I’d imagine that this would be even more emphasized. You might go from being utterly selfish, to making too many sacrifices for the sake of the relationship. The power plays often come in because one partner makes these demands in order that the other prove their love. Eventually, you come to a healthy place where you realize that this is inappropriate and unhealthy. You learn to walk away from that. With an opposition, I imagine you’d need to find a balance… What have been your experiences of it?

    (About the artwork: Originally I liked the artwork, but when you like something artistically, you can also use it to plumb for deeper meaning.)

  18. hmm.. well in my experience i don’t think i’ve been asked to sacrifice a lot yet. but i’ll keep that interpretation in mind. thanks!

  19. How have you experienced it?

  20. I’ve experienced it with two boys…well, maybe three. One was about 12 years ago and I dated an older guy and all his gal friends seemed more “developed” than me. Not that I looked like a little boy lol but I was body building at the time and had like 3% bodyfat…. so, no boobs lol! I’d catch him looking at girls, but ultimately, he was CRAZY about me. But, I cut him off one day and never looked back. Another one was my first experience dating a flirt “dangerous” man. Pisces sun, gem rising, venus aries, mars virgo. I think this is where the venus opposition pluto really came into play. I felt so neglected and didn’t understand how he could keep me around with the way he treated me and how he messed around with other girls. THAT was a toxic relationship and it took me a long time to heal on that one. Third guy, also venus opp pluto, was a fling. Sorry, I was a fling. I still don’t fully understand why we didn’t work out. Only conclusion I can come to is that he still wasn’t over an ex, who doesn’t even live here. I also think he compared me to his past, which I try not to do. He accused me of being jealous though, which I never EVER was, but I saw it in him. Any guy friend I ever mentioned “did you f*** him?” uh NO lol! But, it all came crashing down when he misunderstood a time line I had with a ex and asked someone else to verify. Asked me the last time we boinked, I gave him the date, then I told him “but, last time I SAW him was such n such date”… apparently that meant the same thing to him. I answered his question… the last time I had messed around with that dude, not the last time I saw him. He got free unasked information and was still upset. Smh. I am still thinking about this guy 2 months later and I hate it. I just want to send him a letter so that I can finally have closure.

  21. Wow, thanks for sharing, no-persp. As an objective observer, it is very clear why that last relationship didn’t last. He wouldn’t own his feelings of jealousy and kept projecting them unto you. Also, it is always inappropriate to grill a prospective partner about specifics of his or her sexual past. It is a good insurance policy to not divulge that kind of information nor ask for it, other than in the most general terms for the safety of all concerned. (Ie, obviously, if there’s an STD or if there’s another person you might be involved with currently.) If someone presses you for details that will only torment him in the end, then that’s a red flag that the relationship is skirting dangerous territory. That was clearly a situation in which he set himself up and, again, refused to take any responsibility for it. How utterly maddening! Sometimes the best closure we’ll ever get is to know that we escaped a bad situation…

  22. See, I am also to blame for that.. we both..kinda…talked about our exes :/ He had to actually lol, he has to deal with a baby mama and his son is only 1 1/2 yrs old. She wasnt ready for the breakup so he wanted to keep any relationship he had hush hush. He also talked about another girl “the deepest most intense passion”… baby mama cheated on him, which he couldn’t fully prove, and the other girl “took a break” and never returned til years later, emotionally not physically. Of course, he reminded me of a better version of my faaaavorite ex of all time (in a good way, we’re still friends). And, I understood his cheated on situation, and that opened up my can of worms on the ex pisces which used to be blasted all over this site. I think he was just looking for someone to make him happy and give him his self-confidence back, which I did. But, compared me in a really bad light. I swore to myself I’d never be a jealous person ever again. My relationship with Pisces was the first and last time I will let those unhealthy emotions get to me. I don’t think the most recent guy knew where I was coming from because he didn’t want to understand, honestly.

  23. Yes, relationships are dynamics. It’s never just one person’s fault.

  24. True enough maturity is the key. Try to accept the inevitable with serenity.

  25. @ Marly K – I just read this post and did a quick check on my partner’s chart and my suspicion was confirmed – he has venus square pluto and I could so agree to the angle of third parties with utter agony! We’ve been together five years now, and earlier it was his ex, then his mother and then my ex…just that we are never left alone! Its frustrating! While the article suggests that I’d be the one bringing third parties in and he’d be on the losing end, its been the oppostie for us! Ever since I’ve known him, there has been a third party meddling with us and I quite hoped it was temporary while realized to my horror that it was just not getting sorted…while it took a huge bit of strength to push his ex away, to my utter dismay suddenly his mom decided to fill that space and religiously drive a wedge between us which led my venus-in-scorp to ultimately just detach myself emotionally coz I couldnt stand the divide and hello enters my hottie whom I had a difficult time getting over and now that I’ve ended that as well, so have my expectations and focus from a fulfilling relationship :|

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