Comments on: Gay or Straight? That Is the Question http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html Thu, 18 Mar 2010 06:42:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Jeffrey Kishner http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2451 Jeffrey Kishner Wed, 09 Jul 2008 18:19:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2451 I just had to post this recent quote from <a HREF="http://www.salon.com/opinion/paglia/2008/07/09/russert/index4.html" REL="nofollow">Camille Paglia</a>: "I have said many times before that I do not believe homosexuality is inborn but that it is an adaptation to specific circumstances and possibilities. What many gay men are remembering as their innate gayness was in fact some other attribute (often an artistic gene) that may have led to a dislocation from roughhousing male bonding. The sex instinct, which comes later, is in my view heavily symbolic among human beings. (Post-structuralism, among its many pathetic flaws, is helpless with symbolism.) <br/><br/>Once the symbolism of erotic attraction is deeply implanted in the brain, it is almost impossible to change it. And in a just society, sexual orientation would not be subject to such pressures anyhow. Everyone, in my strong opinion, has the potential for bisexual response and expression. Hence I think both exclusive heterosexuality and exclusive homosexuality do need to be "explained." I understand the biological imperative of hormones, which drive male and female to mate and reproduce. But why is anyone entirely gay? It seems incontrovertible to me that at root there is indeed a dissatisfaction of some kind with the opposite sex, grounded in early experiences and reinforced in adolescence. There is not a single gay person whom I have known over the course of my life since high school for whom childhood factors played no role whatever in his or her adult choice. And yes, behavior is a choice, even if fantasy and imagination are uncontrollable." I just had to post this recent quote from Camille Paglia: “I have said many times before that I do not believe homosexuality is inborn but that it is an adaptation to specific circumstances and possibilities. What many gay men are remembering as their innate gayness was in fact some other attribute (often an artistic gene) that may have led to a dislocation from roughhousing male bonding. The sex instinct, which comes later, is in my view heavily symbolic among human beings. (Post-structuralism, among its many pathetic flaws, is helpless with symbolism.)

Once the symbolism of erotic attraction is deeply implanted in the brain, it is almost impossible to change it. And in a just society, sexual orientation would not be subject to such pressures anyhow. Everyone, in my strong opinion, has the potential for bisexual response and expression. Hence I think both exclusive heterosexuality and exclusive homosexuality do need to be “explained.” I understand the biological imperative of hormones, which drive male and female to mate and reproduce. But why is anyone entirely gay? It seems incontrovertible to me that at root there is indeed a dissatisfaction of some kind with the opposite sex, grounded in early experiences and reinforced in adolescence. There is not a single gay person whom I have known over the course of my life since high school for whom childhood factors played no role whatever in his or her adult choice. And yes, behavior is a choice, even if fantasy and imagination are uncontrollable.”

]]> By: Karen http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2450 Karen Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:47:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2450 exactly, Laura!Thank you!<br/> People are always attracted by someone, but it doesn't mean it matters that much.<br/>If we're inclined to cheat,while were in a committed relationship also, we may do so--heterosexual,homosexual whateversexual.:-) exactly, Laura!Thank you!
People are always attracted by someone, but it doesn’t mean it matters that much.
If we’re inclined to cheat,while were in a committed relationship also, we may do so–heterosexual,homosexual whateversexual.:-)

]]> By: Laura F. Walton http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2449 Laura F. Walton Thu, 03 Jul 2008 03:24:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2449 <i>The perosn feels and /or bleeives that dating someone who is attracted to both sexes would not be trustworthy.<br/>I don't agree.<br/>A committment is a committment.<br/>A date is a date.<br/>It's not about the sex.</i><br/><br/>Well said! Asking a bisexual (or pansexual...I like that term better...or omnisexual) to swear not to ever be attracted to a member of another sex is like asking a heterosexual person to never be attracted to a member of the opposite sex. Just because we might still be attracted occasionally doesn't mean we can't happily exist within the terms of a monogomous relationship, whoever it's with. The perosn feels and /or bleeives that dating someone who is attracted to both sexes would not be trustworthy.
I don’t agree.
A committment is a committment.
A date is a date.
It’s not about the sex.

Well said! Asking a bisexual (or pansexual…I like that term better…or omnisexual) to swear not to ever be attracted to a member of another sex is like asking a heterosexual person to never be attracted to a member of the opposite sex. Just because we might still be attracted occasionally doesn’t mean we can’t happily exist within the terms of a monogomous relationship, whoever it’s with.

]]> By: Karen http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2448 Karen Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:58:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2448 btw, on the issue of people not comfortbale wiht ambiguities...I think yes, it's what we don't accpet in ourselve,s but, also I believe that most of us would like to know what's what, and just don't like vagueries, or ambiguity period.It's threatening.<br/>Now, I hope, and like to think I accpet a lot of ambiguous things and people.<br/>But I don't like evasive answers, or prevarication as a rule, and I need to know where I stand with people, if they're important to me.So, clearly I have soe of that myself.<br/>But,to me, someone's sexuality doesn't have to be either/or to make sense to me.<br/>Just like was said about lots of "air" in an astrolgy chart not indicating the person has *no* feelings or emotional reactions, I think being pan-sexual(which is what I think human beings really are)doesn't equate with unreliable or confused.<br/>But *that* is the reason I hear most gay people, especially women , state for why they do'nt like or acept bisexuality.<br/>The perosn feels and /or bleeives that dating someone who is attracted to both sexes would not be trustworthy.<br/>I don't agree.<br/>A committment is a committment.<br/>A date is a date.<br/>It's not about the sex. btw, on the issue of people not comfortbale wiht ambiguities…I think yes, it’s what we don’t accpet in ourselve,s but, also I believe that most of us would like to know what’s what, and just don’t like vagueries, or ambiguity period.It’s threatening.
Now, I hope, and like to think I accpet a lot of ambiguous things and people.
But I don’t like evasive answers, or prevarication as a rule, and I need to know where I stand with people, if they’re important to me.So, clearly I have soe of that myself.
But,to me, someone’s sexuality doesn’t have to be either/or to make sense to me.
Just like was said about lots of “air” in an astrolgy chart not indicating the person has *no* feelings or emotional reactions, I think being pan-sexual(which is what I think human beings really are)doesn’t equate with unreliable or confused.
But *that* is the reason I hear most gay people, especially women , state for why they do’nt like or acept bisexuality.
The perosn feels and /or bleeives that dating someone who is attracted to both sexes would not be trustworthy.
I don’t agree.
A committment is a committment.
A date is a date.
It’s not about the sex.

]]> By: Karen http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2447 Karen Wed, 02 Jul 2008 07:47:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2447 Shygirl, thank you my friend.:-)I appreciate that. <br/>My remarks the other night weren't aimed at anyone in particular, and especially not you.<br/>I have a 'thing' about not being heard or acknowleged, it's my problem.<br/>Being older also, I've seen that some things change but cycle'round again, and are mostly the same again on another level of the spiral.make any sense?<br/>I like the Instant Zen Master aerosol too ;-).<br/>Laura, you could clean up-in more ways than one, with this.:-) Shygirl, thank you my friend.:-)I appreciate that.
My remarks the other night weren’t aimed at anyone in particular, and especially not you.
I have a ‘thing’ about not being heard or acknowleged, it’s my problem.
Being older also, I’ve seen that some things change but cycle’round again, and are mostly the same again on another level of the spiral.make any sense?
I like the Instant Zen Master aerosol too ;-) .
Laura, you could clean up-in more ways than one, with this.:-)

]]> By: Laura F. Walton http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2446 Laura F. Walton Tue, 01 Jul 2008 21:04:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2446 Shygirl, I'll have a 6-pack sent to you right away ;-)<br/><br/><i> I think the reason we can't accept the ambiguities in general in other people & in the universe, is because we can't come to terms with them within ourselves.</i><br/><br/>You're so right on about that one!<br/><br/>Half of me is idealistic enough to believe that part of our judgmental "either/or", "us/them" nature is merely convention...a set of habits...and habits can be changed, on a societal level as well as a personal one. <br/><br/>The other half of me is more pragmatic, and says that human nature is what it is, and we can never totally leave it behind. Even if we could, it might not be such a good idea. <br/><br/>Now, when I'm able to fully accept <i>this</i> particular ambivalence within myself, I'll get right on that Zen Master spray! Shygirl, I’ll have a 6-pack sent to you right away ;-)

I think the reason we can’t accept the ambiguities in general in other people & in the universe, is because we can’t come to terms with them within ourselves.

You’re so right on about that one!

Half of me is idealistic enough to believe that part of our judgmental “either/or”, “us/them” nature is merely convention…a set of habits…and habits can be changed, on a societal level as well as a personal one.

The other half of me is more pragmatic, and says that human nature is what it is, and we can never totally leave it behind. Even if we could, it might not be such a good idea.

Now, when I’m able to fully accept this particular ambivalence within myself, I’ll get right on that Zen Master spray!

]]> By: Shygirl http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2445 Shygirl Tue, 01 Jul 2008 19:24:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2445 Laura, I would like to order the Instant Zen Master aerosol spray, in Lavendar or Jasmine please.....:-)<br/>Cash or credit?......:-):-)<br/><br/>Jokes aside, I think the reason we can't accept the ambiguities in general in other people & in the universe, is because we can't come to terms with them within ourselves. What frustrates us within ourselves, always sticks out like a sore thumb in others.<br/><br/>Karen, you're welcome. I always love your comments too, you know that right?....:-) Laura, I would like to order the Instant Zen Master aerosol spray, in Lavendar or Jasmine please…..:-)
Cash or credit?……:-):-)

Jokes aside, I think the reason we can’t accept the ambiguities in general in other people & in the universe, is because we can’t come to terms with them within ourselves. What frustrates us within ourselves, always sticks out like a sore thumb in others.

Karen, you’re welcome. I always love your comments too, you know that right?….:-)

]]> By: Karen http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2444 Karen Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:47:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2444 shygirl , thnaks for your intelligent comments also, sweetie.(that you consider it all to be normal.) shygirl , thnaks for your intelligent comments also, sweetie.(that you consider it all to be normal.)

]]> By: Karen http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2443 Karen Tue, 01 Jul 2008 09:46:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2443 Instant enlightenment sounds good Laura, :-)<br/><br/>I agree 100%--both gay and striaght "camps' seem to be predujiced against "bi" people.I know it, and all my equally bisexual freinds say so.Thanks for your post.<br/><br/><br/>Jeffrey, sorry or the mix-up, no, I had not posted on all this *here* and that's what I was reffering to..We had discussed this on the forum, and Laura, Angeline, and Shygirl were among osme that were there.<br/>I was being grouchy sorry. Instant enlightenment sounds good Laura, :-)

I agree 100%–both gay and striaght “camps’ seem to be predujiced against “bi” people.I know it, and all my equally bisexual freinds say so.Thanks for your post.

Jeffrey, sorry or the mix-up, no, I had not posted on all this *here* and that’s what I was reffering to..We had discussed this on the forum, and Laura, Angeline, and Shygirl were among osme that were there.
I was being grouchy sorry.

]]> By: Laura F. Walton http://sasstrology.com/2008/06/gay-or-straight-that-is-question.html/comment-page-1#comment-2442 Laura F. Walton Tue, 01 Jul 2008 03:37:00 +0000 http://kishner.wordpress.com/2008/06/26/gay-or-straight-that-is-the-question/#comment-2442 It's not just sexuality, either. We "people" (hey look, I'm including myself in the human race tonight!) seem to have all sorts of problems with ambiguities of every sort. To a greater or lesser extent, we want things to be all sorted out, once and for all. We'd rather take a good solid "No" than an extended "Maybe" any day, and we lose out on a lot because of it.<br/><br/>Is it lack of faith, lack of mental flexibility, insecurity, or just plain laziness? I don't know. I'm guilty of it myself, and wish someone would come up with some sort of Instant Zen Master aerosol spray. "Depress button for two seconds and enjoy instant enlightenment! You too can live peacefully with the ambiguities of the universe! Now in Berry Fresh Scent!" It’s not just sexuality, either. We “people” (hey look, I’m including myself in the human race tonight!) seem to have all sorts of problems with ambiguities of every sort. To a greater or lesser extent, we want things to be all sorted out, once and for all. We’d rather take a good solid “No” than an extended “Maybe” any day, and we lose out on a lot because of it.

Is it lack of faith, lack of mental flexibility, insecurity, or just plain laziness? I don’t know. I’m guilty of it myself, and wish someone would come up with some sort of Instant Zen Master aerosol spray. “Depress button for two seconds and enjoy instant enlightenment! You too can live peacefully with the ambiguities of the universe! Now in Berry Fresh Scent!”

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