Gemini, the Devil’s Advocate
October 22, 2007 by Jeffrey Kishner
What is an opinion, but a belief buttressed by a bunch of facts? An opposing opinion on the same spectrum can be supported by a different set of facts. Whether you’re discussing abortion, affirmative action or school vouchers, there’s always a statistic that will back up your argument.
This, my friends, is what Gemini lives for. This mutable air sign has the flexibility to backup either side of a debate with supporting facts, poll results and demographic statistics. Gemini’s planetary ruler, Mercury, has no values. This shape-shifting planet is not attached to opinions. Therefore, Gemini has the freedom to be the devil’s advocate, to choose the opposing perspective and challenge you with counter-arguments to weaken your case. He does not necessarily disagree with you or think that you’re wrong, but he laughs at those who are so enamored of a theory or philosophy that they refuse to acknowledge the facts that don’t fit into their worldview.
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Well, Jeffrey, you’ve probably guessed that I would be the first to comment on this topic. lol
I have to disagree with you here. All of the air signs take turns playing Devil’s Advocate, but Libra does it the most IMO. One Libra I know even disagrees with herself mid-sentence!
My Libran father lives (literally) to point out the holes in an argument, take the opposite stance on whatever issue, and switch sides in a heartbeat. Every time I wanted something as a child, I had to convince my dad with words. I learned that the quickest way to get him to “agree” with me is to start out by disagreeing with myself and letting him convince me why I’m wrong.
Gemini – have bad memories, so they forget what they just said. That’s why they seem to speak with forked tongues. They also like to start s*** when they’re bored, so they say whatever will cause the most drama or provoke the most entertaining response.
Libra – have a phobia of leaving something unconsidered, so try on every point of view to see which one fits before making the opposite decision of you.
Aquarius – just likes to go against the status quo on GP. Aquarius is probably Greek for “minority report”.
Just want to add that the three most inflexible people I know are Geminis. You better have hours of free time ahead of you before daring to disagree with them. I wish they were as open-minded as the stereotype goes.
everyone seems inflexible who is disagreeing with u and not converting – i am not sure this means they actually are, it is a twoway street no.
i am not so much devils advocate as simply not having strong beliefs and liking it that way, and feeling very turned off when other people express strong opinions (on ‘issues’ that is) in an aggressive or dismissive way in particular. then esp if i feel they are just very abritrary and make value judgments i may advocate for the other side, thou not forcefully or seriously and all disclaimery. one could say…enfim. usually i am quick to express agreement thou and disagreement i dont say nothin.
dont kno for other air signs, one libra friend not arguey at all, just the charming type who’ll maybe joke and play u off yourself. talk abt how to really ‘win’.
mama aquarius who is tresnonaquarius is overly invested, not backing off the subject and confrontational. brother aqua just murmurs there are other ways to look at it, laughs and ignores the thing, whatever..another winner in my book lol.
–bis
oh yah i am “gemini” if unclear there.
bis.
@Jara, of course Libra can see both sides of an issue, but Gemini is the true trickster who will go out of his or her way to knock the air out of bloated arguments.
Jeff, are you basing your opinion on the stereotype of Gemini or actual Geminis you know?
Maybe the Geminis I know are different because I don’t think they’re very “flexible”. Most of my friends and relatives are air signs. The Libras I know are the least married to their opinions and act the way you claim Geminis act. My Gemini mom’s version of supporting evidence is “everybody knows that….” which doesn’t cut it to me. My Gemini grandmother’s idea of supporting evidence for all of her opinions are “The Bible says…” She does like to interject her opinions to start arguments between other people, though. The “trickster” in her comes out if she’s bored, but that’s very rare in my family because there are ALWAYS multiple conversations going on to keep her entertained.
I used to listen to my Libra dad (Libra Mercury) and Gemini mom (Gemini Mercury) argue/debate and my mom’s arguments were often emotionally-based and she NEVER changed her mind or stance before or after the argument. She would just storm out and say “conversation over”. She does the same thing with me. With everyone else, she’ll just keep repeating herself until that person either says she’s right or finds an excuse to exit the conversation. My Gemini brother (Cancer Mercury) never disagrees with anyone. He just listens and then asks questions for more information. Now my Gemini uncle, he will argue very strongly for one side and then act like he didn’t say what he said in a later conversation if his arguments are proven to be factually incorrect. OK, my Gemini ex sometimes liked to disagree for the fun of it to keep a conversation going. But he could also be stubborn about his opinions (he had lots of fixed energy in his chart).
Before writing this post, I asked my mom, “Do you like playing devil’s advocate?” She gave an emphatic “no” before I even finished the last syllable. The only time I’ve seen my mom play devil’s advocate is to make a joke. In a real conversation, she doesn’t do that. My dad, on the other hand, has told me many times that he plays devil’s advocate to test someone’s reasoning. He’s a defense attorney and loves bringing his work home. Even the most trivial things have the potential to turn into a mental challenge. I remember him grilling me for two hours on where I got an umbrella because he didn’t believe a stranger gave it to me.
Him: Why would someone just give you an umbrella?
Me: I don’t know. Maybe he was in a generous mood.
Him: Did he give you anything else?
Me: No.
Him: Doesn’t sound very generous to me. Why not give you a ride home since you were at a bus stop and it was raining?
Me: I guess the umbrella was good enough.
Him: That doesn’t make sense. If it’s raining, why would he give you his umbrella? What is he going to use?
And so on…
His hobby is dragging people into never-ending debates. If he’s having a conversation with someone and they come to a point where they agree, he will move onto a point he knows will cause disagreement. Agreement is boring to him.
Out of all the Geminis I know, only two of them are non-committal to their opinions as opposed to only one Libra that is stubborn about her opinions. Now that I think about it, 100% of the Aquarians I know really like to play devil’s advocate more than the Libras even, especially if someone sounds very sure or certain of an opinion. When watching air signs converse, it’s really hard to tell who’s stirring the s*** more because they all do it. They just have different styles. My Aquarius ex used to express his views more passionately (could be his Sag Moon talking), but I’ve seen his Libra brother wind him up in a calm way by picking at holes in my ex’s logic. Hilariously, it is the Libra’s wife (an Aries) that often has to be the voice of reason and peace between those two.
“mama aquarius who is tresnonaquarius is overly invested, not backing off the subject and confrontational. brother aqua just murmurs there are other ways to look at it, laughs and ignores the thing, whatever..another winner in my book lol.”
Hmm…My Gemini mom has Aquarius descendant. Maybe that’s why she seems so fixed in her opinions. This is it exactly-> “overly invested and confrontational.” I can be that way about some topics, too. She got along great with my Aquarius ex. They are both computer engineers (her hardware and him software). He was like a student at her altar so she really enjoyed their conversations. When they did disagree, they would both get stubborn about trying to convince the other person. There was no switching sides in those debates.
try a Libra Sun with a Gemini Moon, double whammy
they even argue with themselves
Jara,
While I think your perceptions and observations are dead-on, you sound pretty inflexible in your arguments, Jara. It seems to me that once you make a statement about a sign or aspect and someone else states an observation that may not necessarily jibe with yours, well, you don’t seem to take it well. I’m pointing this out bc I often find that when we see a certain characteristic of a sign or aspect playing out a certain way, it’s partly due to a dynamic. In other words, there is something in our own chart that has that same characteristic we don’t like in the other and that we’re “triggering” bc we’re disowning. This used to happen to me with Scorpios and Virgos. I didn’t want to own a part of my chart and so I kept finding others who would play that side that I didn’t want to face.
I hope this doesn’t make you defensive, Jara. I respect your opinion a lot but sometimes even as I agree 100% with you, I find your tone a little off-putting bc it sounds like your word is the end all be all.
Eme
In my case, my pursuing a line of question (like in the umbrella dialogue) is less about poking holes/playing Devil’s Advocate and more just utter insatiable curious–to keep asking until I’m satisfied that I understand. My friends tell me that I am endlessly fascinated by people, including the mundane, b/c I need to know everything. And, I am a quintuple Gemini with additional air signs (I’m almost all air, except for one water sign). Not that this by any means makes me an expert! Just my own personal observation of what motivates me to question.
Nice discussion here you have everyboyd riled up Jeffrey. I have two lawyers that are Geminis and so far how I take there middle ground stance attitude on things as a weakness, it looks like they have no spine, especially when you need them to really stick of up legal issues that pertain to your own wellbeing and safety. So what I say is stay away from attorney Geminis they stab you in the back, so far I have fired one of them and the other I might try and work with his disability.
Sharon
Oops, correction to something I wrote earlier:
“Hmm…My Gemini mom has Aquarius descendant.”
I meant my Gemini mom has an Aquarius ASCENDANT, not descendant. We’d probably get along even better if she had a Leo Ascendant.
@Eme (aka Anonymous),
Please see my comments in Jeff’s recent “Theory/Observation” post. Trust me, I’m not disowning my contrariness. I’ve been like this from day one (according to my mom) and stuff in my chart illustrates that, too. I can go back and forth between being too quiet about expressing my views to expressing them too passionately to being overly detached and then back again. I vent on here, so guess which sides this site’s readers are privy to.
Actually, one of the reasons why I became a regular reader of this site is because Jeff answered a question I had about why I keep attracting Sun Aries guys or guys with the same Aries placements. His answer was very honest (which I respect) and helpful. He told me what to look for in my chart that could be the explanation. I believe he said I should go rock-climbing to work out my Mars issues (Mars square Saturn). Of course, being that my Mars is in Gemini, I’m not all that physical a person. (Rock-climbing hurts!) I did go twice since Jeff advised that, though (ironically, with an ex that has Aries in Venus and Mars). Even though I was exhausted afterwards, it did make me feel better…and horny. Two Mars-y type people together in the same room? My ex and I almost got back together after that first rock-climbing session. Whoo-whee. Ok, TMI. lol
I know listing our natal aspects kind of bothers Jeff, so I’ll try to keep my list short.
Stuff I May or May Not Be Disowning
Ascendant opposed Mars (aggressive Sag opp. detached Gemini)
Ascendant square Saturn (aggressive Sag sq. repressive Virgo)
Mars in 6th or 7th house (depends on the interpretation)
Leo Mercury (known for stubbornness and tunnel vision)
[IMO]You know what’s funny to me about your observation, Eme Kah? I’m very self-conscious of using the pronoun “I” too much in my writing and don’t like to do it, so I tend to leave out the “I think this” and just head straight into my opinion or my theory, which probably sounds like I’m stating a fact vs. stating my opinion = “end all, be all” tone of what I write.[/IMO]
LOL @ Anonymous said…
try a Libra Sun with a Gemini Moon, double whammy
they even argue with themselves
I’ve seen this before and it is hilarious! One Libra friend with Gemini Moon literally argued with herself on a voicemail she just left me. She ended with HELP ME, I CAN’T STOP!!! I need to stop writing about her and call her back before she argues herself to death. Bye!
Hey Quintuple Gemini,
See these sentences you wrote right here?: “Not that this by any means makes me an expert! Just my own personal observation of what motivates me to question.”
That’s what I’m too lazy to keep writing in my stuff. I always just assume people know I’m no expert without me having to say it. I guess some people like to hear people constantly qualify and modify. You know how much longer my posts would be if I kept saying “but that’s just me” or “not that I’m speaking for you, but…” Good grief. Who’s voting for my posts to get even longer? Not me, that’s for damn sure. There’s a reason why I nicknamed myself “Blah Blah”. I even tire myself out.
jara darling, perhaps there’s a nasty T-square there somewhere
don’t work so hard at trying to figure yourself out
life happens
it’s all good
Anon, oh but I can’t help but try to understand stuff – me included. That’s what I do. I like to figure out what makes things tick. Take it apart, figure it out, and put it back together again (if possible). I’ve read studies that say people with a c’est la vie (sp?) attitude to life probably live longer lives because they’re less stressed out. I’m still learning about T-squares and Grand Crosses and all those other configurations. Perhaps there is a T-square in my chart. I still have to do the calculations to find out for sure.
And hahaha! to So what I say is stay away from attorney Geminis they stab you in the back, so far I have fired one of them and the other I might try and work with his disability.
Sharon
My uncle (Pisces) just got a divorce from his wife (Aquarius) and his lawyer totally screwed him over. She wasn’t telling him about court dates and kept siding with his wife. His lawyer kept advising him to give more and more $$ to his ex-wife for child support when he kept their daughter Monday through Saturday. This is on top of him giving his ex-wife their car (he bought another one) and $20,000 just because she asked for it. He was very “here, take whatever you want” about the whole thing. Even though his lawyer was on his ex-wife’s side, the judge found in his favor. Instead of ordering my uncle to pay more child support, his ex-wife ended up having to pay him some child support to even things out. lol Greed does not pay. I wonder what is my uncle’s lawyer’s Sun sign? We found out later that his lawyer was going through her own divorce around the same time. Talk about conflict of interest.
and Gemini boyfriends screw behind your back then bring you flowers
get used to it
it’s part of their charm
just go on http://www.astro.com, plug in your stats
if your natal chart comes up with a nasty red triangle, that’s a T-square
and the only way to tame this beast is balance it off with the missing leg
study the degree that is the missing leg
and pursue it with a passion
you will be cured
PS
love from Victoria
Anon (Victoria?), I followed your advice and took a look at my chart drawing. It has lots of blue triangles, one closed “nasty” red triangle, and a few red lines making triangles with blue lines. What do you mean by “missing legs”? The big red triangle is between 1st (Sag), 7th (Gemini), and 9th (Virgo) houses. Is the missing leg Pisces?
hey jara, i respect your outspoken mind. you just have strong opinions, and i think its obvious thats all it is. iam also a true true true Gemini, May 27 1988, moon sign also air libra. i feel very similar to you. my sisters are sag, aquarius and scorpio all older then me and my baby bro is libra. my moms aquarius and dad scorpio…lol…lots of crazy wild people in my fam… but i love them all and can see all thier astrology signs in them very strongly. they all also think when i speak my mind that iam stating as a fact but really i came to realize hat arguin bout wats a fact wats opinion is all a waste of time cuz EVERYONE has different opinions whether similar or not, we all just need to be open minded when it comes to listening to others speak whether they think they speak of facts or opinions, who is any body to prove wrong cuz theyd be doing wat they didnt like bout u ya feel… as you see i ramble on too..haha well any who iam shawna introducing to everyone, iam madly inlove with my LEO boyfriend, and you heard my fam background and they are all my best friends. hope to chat with yall muah!