I have a Sun/Pluto square (exact) and Venus/Saturn opposition (w/in 1 degree) and I can relate to much of what has been written here. When it was written “men who didn’t care about me (Sun square Pluto; my emotionally unavailable father” – I have/and had this. I look back and realize that I have been dealing with this most of my life and the Saturn/Venus opposition also seemed to create a lack of feeling loved/appreciated/acknowledged/valued…

I had major issues with abuse also. Some were physical but that was younger mostly than I remember but my mother told me of some awful things that happened and I DID have the absolute terror of my father to prove that it was accurate. She “put her foot down” so to speak, when I was maybe 8 or 10 or so and after that it was “just” verbal/emotional abuse. I have tended to joke that my father was a (daily) “rage-aholic” but it wasn’t always funny!

I wish that I had the feeling of what some wrote here of feeling bad to say anything about my family, because I havn’t had that; I speak about it, and I, from the opposite stand-point, feel guilty of that sometimes!! The interesting part for me is that I realize that I have set myself up with some similar relationship stuff w/my current boyfriend and w/my ex-husband and that I tend to “talk” about these problems and later feel this guilt about it. I look forward to newer horizons, learning these “plutonian” lessons…, and maybe that will entail less talk and just more action. As far as therapy is concerned, these are great things – but some cannot afford it – and even though I would love it – as a single mother of 2, and finishing a degree, it will be awhile before I can (I still have a big bill from “trying” to do this but it was really out of my financial league). For some, there will just have to be other ways to heal. Friends, meditation, a good read, astrology!!, prayer, etc….! Thankfully there are many ways!

Funny – my dad is an Aries Sun/Cappy Moon and JUST found out this year his birth-time which showed that he has Virgo rising!! Next Funny part – my boyfriend of many years (and the biggest struggles SINCE I lived at home with my dad) is a Virgo Sun/ Aries Moon (with his moon in the 10th house!!!), and Gemini/Cancer cusp rising! – Anyone else have a Aries/Virgo mixed story?? (I am curious as I ALSO have an ex boyfriend from years back that was also an Aries Sun/Virgo Moon and they all presented familiar emotionally blank slates for me!

I found that out by virtue of a therapist suggesting that a retreat might be a way for me to discover what it was that I was trying to avoid by filling my time up with meaningless trifles. It was, in fact, an incredibly transformative experience, but one that I am still processing several years later. But it was also an intensely relaxing experience, and I’ve used retreats to give myself some time and space to let myself think ever since.

An interesting coincidence: that initial retreat occurred just about the time transiting Pluto conjoined my natal Sun.

Blahblah, you asked why I thought I’d moved past my issues. I thought so because I entered into a long-term relationship with a man who didn’t seem to reflect either of the two extremes I mentioned. He gave me the space I needed, but didn’t allow me to dominate him. Up until recently, I had thought that reflected a maturation on my part. Now I’m not so sure. But then, I’ve currently got Neptune messing with me. Maybe I’ll figure it out once that passes me by.

No, that’s not what I meant, that there was only one solution. When I suggested therapy over a retreat, I was talking more about intensity and duration, as opposed to a retreat which is usually a short period of time, ie, a weekend or a week or perhaps three months at most. (At least, that’s the impression that I get about retreats, I could be wrong.) Ime, Pluto issues take time to sort out. There are no short-term, easy solutions, not when it comes to Pluto. Pluto doesn’t care about your sense of time, at least that’s what I’ve experienced, although Jeff will probably be able to tell us whether my reading of Pluto is off or not.

Besides being 2 years younger than everyone else during high school, I was still working through major trust issues, so I wasn’t interested in dating at all. With the exception of dating a guy during my senior year in high school, I avoided relationships during my teens. I’m in my 20’s, so I’m still working through my current relationship motto of not letting people get too close to me that you say you were working through in your 20’s. Relationships are a great way to find out more about myself, and they have shown me how past experiences are still affecting me now. It motivates me to deal with my issues and find solutions.

Why did you think that you had moved past the issues you dealt with in your teens and 20’s?

I think you and Eme Kah have the right idea. You’re both saying that talking about my issues can help me heal, just have different ideas about who I should talk to. Sometimes, I think helping others work through their issues will help me work through mine. I do like to help others feel better…

Interesting that your mentioning the retreat you went to instantly appealed to me. Like you, I have a 12th house moon. I find that being alone when I’m stressed out calms me down (something my dad and his side of the family used to be very suspicious and disapproving of).

Thanks you two for sharing your experiences, as well.

Eme Kah, thanks for your kind words and “healing vibes.” It is hard to share things that are personal to me because I’m a private person, but it gets easier with time.

I like your comparison to the Sopranos. Dysfunctional relatives (and the enabling families who love them) are so twisted, they will have you thinking black is white and up is down. I don’t understand how people can jump to the abusive person’s defense, as if there’s any justification for that type of behavior. Even if your step-uncle’s wife was “provoking” him, he’s a grown man that should have control over himself.

Although I go out of my way to make sure I don’t date an alternative version of my father, I have dated men that remind me of my father in some negative ways (possessive, easily irritated, and unable to deal with his emotions).

It must be hard dealing with the t-square between your moon/venus/pluto. Do you feel that the intensive therapy is helping you any?

But thank you as well for sharing your experience. There’s a wealth of good information and advice in your post.

This really resonates with me:

“Because I can’t control others, I focus on controlling myself, always making sure not to become too emotionally involved in relationships because that gives the other person the power to hurt me. The rationale is “If I don’t feel too strongly for this person, then nothing he says or does will affect me like it has in the past.”"

That just about sums up my approach to relationships in my teens and twenties. I would cycle between men who didn’t care about me (Sun square Pluto; my emotionally unavailable father) and men who cared too much (Moon square Pluto; my overly protective mother). All of which had the effect of making me feel powerless and wanting to be in control that much more. I had thought I’d moved beyond that, but recent events have me looking at the last 15 years of life in a different way. Yikes.

Having said that, I do want to say that I believe that the problems associated with these Pluto aspects *can* be healed. Finding someone to talk about them with is a big start. I do volunteer work with a local rape crisis center. We go into the local public school system to talk about rape and sexual abuse and one of the points we try to drive home is that, if someone is doing something wrong, tell a trusted adult. And if that adult doesn’t believe you, tell another one. And keep telling until you find someone who does and who can help. Not easy to do when you’re met with disbelief, but important. Knowing that other people *can* understand you and relate to you is a big first step.

Again, thank you for sharing.

And it may be my 12th house Moon talking, but a retreat is a great thing! I highly recommend it, if it’s at all possible.

I come from a family like yours. And, believe me, at nearly 38 I still have a hard time trusting my own experience of things. Up until very recently, I still had my family making me feel guilty when I was justifiably furious if someone took advantage of me and I read that person the riot act. I was told that I was wrong. To give you an example that is not directly about me, when my 6″1 step-Uncle threw his 5′4″, 100# wife against the wall and she walked out on him, his parents reaction were outraged at her. When I pointed out that my Uncle was abusive and that his wife couldn’t have been able to defend herself otherwise (she’s really tiny), my step-grandparents looked at me bewildered and angry and said: What did SHE do to provoke him? In their eyes, he was being victimized by a crazy harridan. Women are such crazy bitches, after all.

I don’t know about you but one of the big bugaboos in my life and in those of many abuse victims is that we tend to reenact the trauma. We pick partners or friends who take advantage of us or abuse us in similar ways (verbally, physically, what have you). This is a really difficult cycle to break. I can only speak for myself but a retreat wouldn’t have cut it for me. I’m going to intensive therapy now, as much as I can afford, and it’s still hard to break the pattern; it’s almost as if I become a zombie and just fall into the groove of past patterns and it takes a lot of discipline to act differently. I know I can lick this but it takes a helluva lot of work. It’s not just a matter of willpower, at least not for me. Others may have a different experience.

I have a Moon/Venus/Pluto t-square and a Saturn/Sun square. Moon/Venus: my needs were not taken care of as a child or not deemed important and hence I neglect my needs myself as a grown-up. Also, I think the Moon/Pluto opposition is related to the women in my family undermining me but, hey, they undermine themselves bc women are not supposed to have power or they’re bitches. Saturn/Sun square, abusive father figures who constantly whittled away at the native’s self-esteem (stepfather, in my case). It’s not all bad, but Pluto issues seem to me like the proverbial tar baby.

Anyway, Blahblah, I send you lots of healing vibes and love.